It is currently Sun Jul 21, 2019 10:48 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Thu May 14, 2009 2:07 am 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:48 pm
Posts: 1910
Location: "Just JFM it" -- Rosen
Placeholder, mostly so I can link this for our paladin crew. A lot of active discussion about a holy/ret build since Judgement of the Wise will allow mana restoration without having to resort to Saronite Vapors. This may come in handy when/if we decide to do the following achievement:

http://www.wowhead.com/?achievement=3181


Link: http://www.worldofmatticus.com/2009/05/ ... ral-vezax/


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2009 4:28 pm 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:23 pm
Posts: 4377
Location: Carrboro, NC
tankspot video:


_________________
He told me, "Red means run, son. Numbers add up to nothing."

Listen to my podcast, Prefer Not To! It will be just like back when we used Vent, only I can't hear you calling me an idiot!


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:18 pm 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:25 am
Posts: 804
Location: Way down South in the land of cotton
Sounds like me and Tam will need to be on the look out for interrupts. I'll need help with it. While shield bash doesn't have GCD conflicts with many warrior abilities, it does require rage and such. But the two of us should keep it locked down.

Don't know what to do about the enrages. It's the same deal as Mimiron P1. Once we consume shield wall and pain suppression, we're left up shit creek for a while. I can pop shield block, but I doubt that will be totally effective. My shield wall is on a 5 minute cooldown. No I don't have improved disciplines and no I'm not speccing into it. Those points are better spent elsewhere.

_________________
Go, and derp no more
@lifecoachers


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:23 pm 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:25 am
Posts: 804
Location: Way down South in the land of cotton
Along those lines, for both Mimiron and this, would it make more sense to start of with Pain Suppression and then follow with Shield Wall instead of the other way around as we have been doing? Pain Suppression CD is 3 minutes while Shield Wall is 5. Starting with Pain Suppression starting first would give a greater probability of getting to use it either 1) Twice in Mim P1 if necessary and 2) getting it coming around earlier in Vezax.

/shrug

I'm not a theorycrafter like you other poopsockers. Just throwing out ideas.

_________________
Go, and derp no more
@lifecoachers


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 5:47 pm 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:23 pm
Posts: 4377
Location: Carrboro, NC
The idea for warrior tanking on enrages is for you to kite him, since his movement speed is reduced by 50 percent. The best strategies i've seen have involved you standing at the very outer edge of his hitbox and intervening someone far away, and continuing to run in that direction.

This would by necessity involve tanking him at one extreme of the room and then the other to maximize the room used for kiting.

I don't think having tam in tank gear in order to taunt and eat an enrage makes a lot of sense from a DPS perspective, however. Much like Hodir, the DPS requirements on this fight and its hard modes would dictate a single tank.

I have zero opinion about the order of tanking / healing cooldowns on mimiron.

Also pretty sure that HoJ will interrupt the enrage.

_________________
He told me, "Red means run, son. Numbers add up to nothing."

Listen to my podcast, Prefer Not To! It will be just like back when we used Vent, only I can't hear you calling me an idiot!


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:09 pm 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:48 pm
Posts: 1910
Location: "Just JFM it" -- Rosen
Shield wall is (can be) 3 minutes, glyphed. I don't know if cane glyphs SW or not.


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:15 am 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:48 pm
Posts: 1910
Location: "Just JFM it" -- Rosen
Strategies we'll be adopting for next week:

- Holy Paladin in melee range, as Zy already was doing

--edit-- typed up the below, but halfway through typing I am a little hesitant to adapt this strategy as-is, or without discussion, as Mark of the Faceless could be difficult to handle unless we had 2 healers in melee range. Consider the following a scratch sheet for discussion.

I was considering adopting the following:
Quote:
- hard-mode 2-camp method, melee as normal and a distant ranged camp. Ranged camp moves slightly on shadow crash, let's say to the right, just like the Heigan Dance. We'll have to get used to this adjustment, and this also may mean we'll skip doing intervene (3 sec cast + 55% move speed after cast means Cane may eat a melee hit, but most likely only one at max. we'll see)

- Healing tricks. There's some healing tricks that we'll be able to take advantage of consistently using a 2-camp method:
1) PW:S does not suffer from the -healing% debuff of shadow puddle, but enjoys the -70% mana cost.
2) Earth Shield does not suffer from the -healing% debuff of shadow puddle, but enjoys the -70% mana cost.

So having a shadow puddle right next door to hop in and out of to cast these will reduce mana usage some.

If these two perks prove of poor use, we'll most likely move a second healer to melee.


But the problem here is Saronite vapors are slightly hard(er) to manage with this raw strategy. So let's roll in some of the things we were doing this week -- healers calling out when they need mana, and having a ranged quickly pop a nearby vapor. The advantage of a ranged camp is all the ranged will have a similar point of view, but the disadvantage is the ranged camp is technically now (camp-1) when a healer is out of formation when in a cloud, which makes shadow crashes slightly more curious to deal with. I think it's okay, though. The healer in the vapor cloud will just return to the ranged pack after their mana lust is satiated.

Mark of the faceless probably have to handle like light bombs on XT, although Mark is nearly twice the damage of a light bomb. 3 seconds to move out of 10 yard range is already 15,000 damage dished out to all the ranged (before resists). That's actually not a big deal, since TECHNICALLY no one should be being hit by shadow crashes (rite?) so it can be healed back up before the next Mark goes out...like devastate on Gluth. That or we can consider 2 ranged groups, but I kinda like having 1 -- I imagine tricks such as Zhu and Llew both standing in the same vapor cloud(s) bouncing prom back and forth, etc, although that's still technically feasible with 2 groups so long as the groups aren't too far apart from one another.

Maybe a buddy system, 2 healers hold hands in a ranged camp, ranged DPS holds hands in a second ranged camp...

Some random dude on Wowhead says no mana is restored to people standing in clouds within 15 yards to Vezax. I don't know if this is true or not, but I'd like to know for sure. I may burn a wipe on getting an answer to that question, unless someone is able to confirm/deny the rumor.


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:27 pm 
Offline
Noob

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:27 pm
Posts: 1391
I can't confirm or deny it with certainty, but I did hop into a couple puddles near Vezax, and I did notice a lack of actually getting mana back or taking damage sometimes.


Last edited by zyzy on Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:31 pm 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:23 pm
Posts: 4377
Location: Carrboro, NC
zyzy wrote:
I can't confirm or deny it with certainty, but I did hop into some puddles near Vezax, and I did notice a lack of actually getting mana back or taking damage sometimes.


Can also confirm there were several times last night I stood in puddles and neither took damage nor received mana. Didn't notice where they were in relation to boss.

_________________
He told me, "Red means run, son. Numbers add up to nothing."

Listen to my podcast, Prefer Not To! It will be just like back when we used Vent, only I can't hear you calling me an idiot!


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:07 pm 
Offline
Noob

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:27 pm
Posts: 1391
Just reposting a previous edit to make sure it's not lost:

We need some logs or a little more discussion of what was happening on a per-player basis.

It felt like I had almost no chance to stand in puddles and regain mana. That might have been more of a perception than a reality, but each time I did something other than focus arroll health, he died. His damage intake seemed 1-healable most of the time (but obvious mana issues with that).

I'm not entirely sure where the healing mana is going. Melee don't need heals. Ranged shouldn't be taking significant damage either - and JoL is healing around 1k per hit. We missed the aoe interrupt several times, which didn't help, but shouldn't have been a disaster either, because there doesn't seem to be all that much non-tank damage.

Anyway, logs gud.


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:41 pm 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:23 pm
Posts: 4377
Location: Carrboro, NC
zyzy wrote:
Just reposting a previous edit to make sure it's not lost:

We need some logs or a little more discussion of what was happening on a per-player basis.

It felt like I had almost no chance to stand in puddles and regain mana. That might have been more of a perception than a reality, but each time I did something other than focus arroll health, he died. His damage intake seemed 1-healable most of the time (but obvious mana issues with that).

I'm not entirely sure where the healing mana is going. Melee don't need heals. Ranged shouldn't be taking significant damage either - and JoL is healing around 1k per hit. We missed the aoe interrupt several times, which didn't help, but shouldn't have been a disaster either, because there doesn't seem to be all that much non-tank damage.

Anyway, logs gud.


I have logs. They are parsed. I am using PC currently and can't hog up all my bandwidth uploading them ATM. When I am doing dishes later, I will do so.

Edited to add: Missing the AoE interrupt leads to substantial raid damage and increased tank damage.

_________________
He told me, "Red means run, son. Numbers add up to nothing."

Listen to my podcast, Prefer Not To! It will be just like back when we used Vent, only I can't hear you calling me an idiot!


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:13 pm 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:25 am
Posts: 804
Location: Way down South in the land of cotton
We do our best on interrupts, but it's not as easy as it seems. Tam needs runic power, I need rage. And surprisingly, my rage is ungodly streaky on this fight. I go through periods of rage starvation, if you can believe that. I think it's because his attack speed isn't that fast, though the individual hits are monster. So 0 rage, 0 rage, 0 rage, 100 rage. That and it's hard to keep an eye on a 2 second cast time (which isn't all that long really) while trying to keep threat, keep debuffs up, watch health for emergencies, watch timers, pay attention to vent chat, plot a kite course, etc.

We'll get better, it will take practice. But we also need to get better at it in general. We were mindful of interrupts on Kel Thuzad, but not locked down. We had a tendency to let some through because the effects weren't nearly as drastic as they are on Vezax.

_________________
Go, and derp no more
@lifecoachers


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:40 pm 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:23 pm
Posts: 4377
Location: Carrboro, NC
Arroll wrote:
I go through periods of rage starvation, if you can believe that. I think it's because his attack speed isn't that fast, though the individual hits are monster.


I was actually wondering about your rage on this fight. He hits SOOOO slow.

_________________
He told me, "Red means run, son. Numbers add up to nothing."

Listen to my podcast, Prefer Not To! It will be just like back when we used Vent, only I can't hear you calling me an idiot!


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:27 pm 
Offline
Noob

Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:27 pm
Posts: 1391
Quote:
I was actually wondering about your rage on this fight. He hits SOOOO slow.


Which is why I wonder where the healer mana is blasting off to. I think reactive healing is probably both viable and even optimal on this one. As long as Arroll isn't getting whacked during superbuff, he's quite healable.

JoL will take care of dps, as long as they're not taking shadow crashes + fire nova of doom.

Sojourner doesn't need zomgwow dps for us to win. Just needs to maintain range and resources to interrupt fire nova of doom.

Rets and warriors and dks won't run out of resources.

If we have 2 healers on, 1 healer off, we should be able to rotate safely and maintain mana supply for tank healing. I'd say me+zhu (herb adding shields in shadow crash), then me+herb, then zhu+herb, would probably be an effective cycle.

If Ned only dpses with shadow crash buff, he'll do just as much or more damage, since he won't have to be looking for mana pools as often. I'm thinking only moonfire+starfire too, as that's an efficient combo plus wrath hits gcd problems with 100% haste. Ask for a salv after the first and third shadow crashes, and yay.

Hunters dunno. One stand where Arroll can intervene, but whatever they think is best.

Anything wrong with that approach?


Top
 Profile  
 
Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: General Vezax
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:29 pm 
Offline
Noob
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 12, 2006 12:23 pm
Posts: 4377
Location: Carrboro, NC
Honestly, as disc, i've never felt a mana problem on this fight. I hold back just a bit, but i think it's probably doable for me even without clouds, or just 1 or 2 during the fight.

I'm not even sure we need rotations, but if Zhu / Zy are feeling mana pressure, they can swap off. I'm probably fine to heal consistently. I felt like i had a good feel for the fight by the end of the night last night.

_________________
He told me, "Red means run, son. Numbers add up to nothing."

Listen to my podcast, Prefer Not To! It will be just like back when we used Vent, only I can't hear you calling me an idiot!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Macinscott 3 style by Scott Stubblefield