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The Ministry of Happy • View topic - Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:53 pm 
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Yay kileld. Few notes:

1) I know we're still doing something very wrong in our approach. Especially phases 2 and 3. Unfortunately, melee doesn't provide a great vantage point for observation.
2) Outgearing this leaves us with only 3 easy ways to die - shock wave, barrage, and missiles.
3) There are a lot of things going on, and visibility is for shit, especially phase 4.
4) My DBM isn't calling out.. anything.. on my rogue. And I have to load it on every time I log in. Other toons it's very chatty and works great. Basically playing mod-less on the rogue. Personal problem I need to resolve.
5) We can obviously 2-heal this.

I was going to post a nice video of the fight, but then realized it's the same as the very first video in this thread. I suggest people re-watch it. It's from last May, with players in worse gear than many of our alts (and no Valanyr), on their first FF kill.

Big deals from the video:
Phase 1 - Efficient ranged and healer spacing.
Phase 2 - Circle spacing allows ranged to just nuke and not run around. No need for ranged to try to avoid regular attacks, and no ranged+healer multiple nuking.
Phase 3 - Head is LoS pull for drops, allowing melee dps on head.
Phase 4 - All I see as melee is fire and boss and wall most of the time. Looks like there's actually a lot of open space for ranged dps though.


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Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:01 pm 
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Glad you posted this, Zy, because it's basically what I was thinking.

Our approach essentially hasn't improved in the past couple of months we've been working on this. We basically won last night because all our gear has another 3k health on it and our healing throughput scaled up significantly since the last time.

Since we need to do this fight at least one more time (i'd actually like to do it more than that, because i've mentioned to some of our friends i'd like to help them get it), let's spitball some ways to improve this.

Zy mentions spacing and range. I lost a few people last night who got out of range, although obviously with three heals that would be less of a concern.

More ideas? There will be parses this evening.

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Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:32 pm 
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I'll help the rest of the raid that didn't get it last night, but your friends? As far as I'm concerned, they are on their own. I don't intend to do this fight any more than is necessary. Beating it or not, the fight is simply not fun. I'd rather spend the time on Yogg +1 than this fight again.

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Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:37 pm 
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Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:46 pm 
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Here's the straight dope on positioning, from my perspective.

1) To heal in p4, i need to plant my feet. Instants are simply not enough throughput to heal the damage that people are taking.

2) To be in range of the most people, I try to stand between the boss and the center of the room. I can heal all of melee that way, and if ranged DPS are staying within 25-30 yards of the boss, I can heal them, also.

3) However, to avoid Laser barrage and missiles, this positioning will not always hold. For example, if laser barrage starts from the direction that the tank is kiting the boss, a 180 degree swathe of the room will be off-limits and I will have to run to a safe spot against the wall. That's an inopportune spot to heal people who are far away from the tank. So we have me moving _toward_ the boss during laser barrage at the same time that people who are at range are pivoting on an axis at either a consistent range or actually increasing their range from the boss, putting them out of range of me.

Furthermore, if I am in an inopportune spot, but there are a large number of land mines and fires between me and the safe spot, I will often keep my feet planted in an inopportune spot (for example, behind the boss, or between the boss and the wall -- two places i have been on occasion following a laser barrage.)

4) The most mobile people in this phase of the fight are the ranged DPS, who are also the ones who are most prone to death from being out of range.

The solution here is for everyone to try to find a safe spot as close to the boss as possible that leaves them reasonable routes of egress for laser barrage.

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Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Simple question: Are ranged behind the boss?

If so, that's the problem. Ranged need to be in front of the boss.

If ranged are in front of the boss, then there shouldn't be possible coverage issues even at max dps range.

A laser barrage of unlimited range shouldn't split anyone out of range.


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Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:39 pm 
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Yes, there are ranged people out of range both behind and sometimes in front of the tank. I'll explain sometimes what happens.

So this is our ideal positioning:


Image



When laser barrage happens, this should be the worst-case scenario:

Image

After laser barrage, ranged should run backout in front of mimiron. Healers can go back to their spots, or stand put for a sec and cast heals before moving.

Image

Sometimes, though, this happens on laser barrage. Maybe boss is tilted a little into the room, and DPS go hug the side wall instead of running to tank.

Image

If that happens, then people get too far spread out when they run out after Laser Barrage.

Image



^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
this is how ranged DPS die out of range.

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Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:37 pm 
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In the video, the healers break forward with the ranged dps after barrage. In picture 4, the healers are stationary against the wall after barrage. And a druid got mind controlled by Yogg or something and ran off in completely the wrong direction.


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Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:27 pm 
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the stationary positioning after the barrage is immediately after the barrage, in case anyone needs healing. as i said, occasionally i have to stand there. It's not a problem if the ranged people in general make their way back to the front of the boss.

Yes, in general, i break back to the position shown in figure one. My point is that if DPS are running away from the boss on barrage, or not close to the boss to begin with, after barrage is over they may be unhealable.

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It will be just like back when we used Vent, only I can't hear you calling me an idiot!


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Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
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 Post subject: Re: Strategy and Discussion: Mimiron (hard mode)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:28 pm 
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He told me, "Red means run, son. Numbers add up to nothing."

It will be just like back when we used Vent, only I can't hear you calling me an idiot!


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